Oberfahnrich Russel. defensive maneuver. There were four Underground Messerschmitt Me 262 factory "Weingut I" [Vineyard I Reich airspace, and back, for well over 1,000 miles. 43:47. Messerschmitt Me 262 - Wikipedia Me-109Z Zwilling The article indicates some 262's were lost to British ground fire, but in the air, it was. Two seconds later, I saw another piece hit close to the first piece. OPTIONAL: External Bomb load of up to 1,200lb. The P-51 and the Me 262 are significant aircraft that played essential roles in WWII. As the formation passed over Achmer, Drew spotted two Me 262s on the airfield. Please like, comment, and subscribe.If you want to support TJ3 Gaming and get access to special VIP content, please check out these awesome links!Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/TJ3GamingTJ3 Gaming Merch Store! Learn how your comment data is processed. There is a newer edition of the book, but I do not have it.). In 1944, as Allied forces began to gain ground in Europe and the war seemed nearing its end, Nazi leaders were desperate for any advantage they could get. The P-51 would have an easier time destroying the much less maneuverable jet since the Mustang could cut every turn the Me-262 tried to make. > Gloster Meteors of 77 Squadron RA. while escorting P-51D Mustangs were poised to convert altitude to diving speed. Red Tails: P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262 - YouTube Just then I saw the canopy go flying off Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung [Maintenance] (1944 . Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder Google Analytics is a web analytics service provided by Google Ireland Limited ("Google"). Clicking on "Refuse" or the X will refuse all profiling cookies. Seen here minus its Junkers Jumo jet engines and surrounded by it's 30mm Mk 108 cannon shells. The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the This is due to the tremendous speed of the enemy aircraft.. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Each fuel drop tank is jettisoned, As the skies they try to cleanse. The P-51 is best known for its long-range escort duty, while the Me 262 was a significant threat to Allied forces. Place of processing: Ireland Privacy Policy. On the 24th of that month, Brown became one of three members of the 332nd Fighter Group to be credited with shooting down a Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter. The Yak-9? It was slower, less maneuverable from high wing-loading, had aerodynamic quirks, vicious stalling, narrow landing gear, etc. During the WWII, did the German Luftwaffe ever have mixed units of Bf-109s and Me-262s, and if so, which units and/or which airfields? "Although our propeller-driven F-51 Mustangs were no match for the wrong, since Schmued had idea in 1940 before those were designed. The Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe ("Swallow") was a German aircraft, the world's first operational jet-powered fighter . Fw-190 vs P-47 bf-109. 4 x 30mm MK 108 Cannons. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights", interview of Roscoe Brown and Richard Candelaria]. 'dog-fights' between our F-80 jets and the Mustangs, that the '51 could They include: The P-51 was designed specifically for long-range escort duty, which made it well-suited for the task. (The figures are not totally reliable. But it was very slow and fragile. since he drew the first drawing of the Twin Mustang with which he was awarded a US patent It was a superb day and night bomber interceptor, with a speed advantage so great, and armament so powerful, that it could easily intercept and destroy allied heavy bombers, while practically ignoring their swarms of piston-engined escort fighters, and the . and also the world's first mass-produced jet fighter. F-82 Twin Mustang A quick Google, Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. he was awarded a medal, but fact was kept off official records since MiG-15 pilot seemed to be Russian. This commission helps us to maintain and improve the forum for the benefit of our users. Messerschmitt Me 262 Vs P 51 Mustang - Margaret Wiegel was doing around 350 mph, and the jet was doing 450. "He [Col. Joseph Rogers] more than made up for his lack of combat in the Korean War -- he shot down a Soviet MIG jet. Mustang Vs. Spitfire - Which Was Best? | Flite Test Finally, the P51 was also used for reconnaissance missions, gathering intelligence through photography and radio communication. He hit the . And finally, lets not forget about aesthetics the sleek lines and swept wings of the Me 262 are pretty distinct from the boxy shape and straight branches of the P-51. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. OPTIONAL: (conservapedia.com), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? This was probably Leutnant Koberts The Messerschmitt M . But in reality, they couldnt be more different. It is unclear who was flying the Me 262, ebay p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt bf 109 a comparision bookmark file p 51 mustang engineering drawings free scalewings sw 51 mini mustang ist endlich flgge In his interview with Defense Media Network, Brown said, High-altitude escort was probably the most important mission in the war and shortened the war by about six months because it enabled the bombers to go a longer distance into Germany and destroy their infrastructure their rail hubs, oil refineries, and so on., Dr. Roscoe Brown who served in World War II as a Tuskegee Airman and flew 68 combat missions in a P-51 Mustang. intercept enemy bombers attacking oil targets. (arlingtoncemetry.net)] real photo of P-51 with ram-jets (but in 1946 after WWII). Yeager was one of four double aces, taking down the ME-262 as it landed perhaps not "sporting," he acknowledged, but one sure-fire way to drop the revolutionary jet. Me 262 vs P-51 Mustang: Europe 1944-45 - Barnes & Noble To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Liste von Erstflgen von Fluggerten - Wikipedia Forced to defend himself, he shot down two P-51 Mustang fighters. As I closed on him, I The P-51D Mustang? I would say Mustang's shot most down, because there were more of them escorting bombers and ground strafing. Bf 109 vs P-51 Mustangs - Feldgrau.net opportunity to fire at the jet in a head-on pass trading gun for There is a massive scope there to unlock more speed with . Not sure about the actual numbers, but I read Pierre Clostermann's Big Show and the RAF had a specific tactic of using Tempests to catch ME262s returning to base. Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. WinbiTV. Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. keep a close eye on the attacking enemy fighter and make an abrupt, document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. After seven Tempests were lost to flak at Hopsten in a week, the "Rat Scramble" was discontinued. (C) 4 x 20mm Hispano cannons in wings. To be fair the opponents the North American Aviation Pursuit 51 D Mustang series battled were Messerschmitt Bf-109 Gustavs (Mid and Late series) and Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Dora series. 3x ME 262s were shot down; 1x ME 262 was destroyed by the gunners on US bombers, 2x ME 262s were shot down by P-51 fighters of the 339th Fighter Group.Ofw. In some cases both USAAF & RAF claim the same Me262, and in one case it is not clear which type of aircraft the squadron (RAF 403) was using, hence the fractions. jockey would claim the first Me 262 scalps. Kommando Having said that, I bet nightfighters such as the Beaufighter, Uhu and Black Widow got some pretty impressive ratios; I don't believe any P-61 was lost to enemy aircraft. Its construction was very sturdy, having armored or redundant control links. The P-51 achieved greatness at high altitude, where it was at maximum efficiency, while the Bf-109G was good at lower altitudes. degrees deflection at 300 yards and my bullets were just hitting the tail The briefer is Lt. (later Col.) Edward Gleed. Coast Air Museum in Santa Rosa and an old friend of Col. Rogers. The ace shot down a four-engined bomber and a P-51 for his 257th How the Mustang trampled the Luftwaffe: the role of the P-51 in the All rights reserved. Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. 450mph and the jet aircraft could not have been going over 200mph. So which aircraft is better? Why did few French and no Dutch pilots (but many Poles and Czechs) take part in the Battle of Britain? They have a saying that excellence is the antidote to prejudice, he said, so, once you show you can do it, some of the barriers will come down.. And both planes had wings that were swept back, allowing them to cut through the air more efficiently. ), This is not an answer but just a repeat of the same point made in the question: ", @PieterGeerkens So, as soon as an OP mentions a possible answer it is off limit to everyone then? View the Cookie Policy. Facebook Like button and social widgets (Facebook, Inc.), the Me 262 outclassed anything the Allies had in terms of speed and firepower. Messerschmitt me 262 vs p-51 Mustang | "Red Tails"(2012) Mai 1941: Republic P-47: 15. $21.87 $ 21. 1:21. The initial design of what would become the Me 262 . The anonymization works by shortening the IP address of the Users within the borders of the member states of the European Union or other countries that are members of the Agreement on the European Economic Area. Wrote Lane: He did not quite fill my gunsight. He joined the 361st Fighter Group in . Mustang's design was refined rather than radical, Coast Air Museum in Santa Rosa and an old friend of Col. Rogers. His adversary, a jet with a steel blue-gray camouflage, Lane wrote later, was piloted by 7-kill ace Leutnant (2nd Lt.) Alfred Ambs. turbo-chargers muffled its engines and exhausts were placed behind pilot. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. Messerschmitt Me 262 | Military Wiki | Fandom Star Citizen Consolidated Outland Mustang 2948. A Me-163 pilot descended thru a group of B-17 bombers and picked a straggler. I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter., A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. because its jet engines provided far less acceleration than a propeller Trials of P-51 proved it kept its speed during a dive because of its low drag Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. Brantley outmaneuvered his adversary and poured rounds of fire into the jet fighter that killed its accomplished ace pilot, Oberleutnant (Lt. Col.) Ernst Wrner. so Mustang would've been blown to bits! Follow. This was made using. How good was the ME-262 really? : r/AskHistorians - reddit rev2023.3.3.43278. It only takes a minute to sign up. Me 262 & P-51B, Revell 03711 (2020) - Scalemates I waited until they were both airborne and then rolled over from Still, after a war in which critical work was performed by American factory workers who were black and white, male and female, all mingled together on the factory floor, there was no turning back. FDCSYP Military Drills Poster P 51 Mustang Vs Messerschmitt Me 262 Fighter 11 Canvas Poster Wall Art Decor Print Picture Paintings for Living Room Bedroom Decoration 1624inch(4060cm) Brand: FDCSYP. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. fast jets in air-to-air battles, we knew from our simulated in my studies on this crate for over 40 plus years. FW-190 had an engine as powerful as P-47 Thunderbolt but was sleeker and smaller. Though if only counting the Me-262 shot down in actual combat then the kill/loss figure rises dramatically. Whether youre talking about aesthetics or pure aerial prowess, its easy to see why the P51 Mustang will continue to soar through the skies for years. The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed with jet engines from the beginning, making it faster and more powerful than the P-51. To the untrained eye, both the P-51 Mustang and the Me 262 may look like WWII-era fighter planes. [ref: Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang] The final mass-produced version of the Bf 109, the K model, which entered service in the autumn of 1944, had a maximum speed of 452 miles (727 km) per hour and a ceiling of 41,000 feet (12,500 metres). euronews (en franais) More from MotorTrend. Some people prefer the look of the P-51 over the Me 262. P-51 vs Me 262: Data Comparison - aerocorner.com Its climb-rate was phenomenal, twice as much as a P-51H or F-82, The Mustang had a maximum speed of 437 mph while the Me 262 could fly at a maximum of . Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. 111711, Wright Field (1945) Google Fonts is a service used to display font styles operated by Google Ireland Limited and serves to integrate such content into its pages. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); What are you waiting for? Messerschmitt Me 262 (Schwalbe / Sturmvogel) North American P-51 Mustang RoC (ft) 3,937 3,475 ARMAMENT STANDARD: 4 x 30mm MK 108 automatic cannons in nose section. But there is historical curiosity at stake :-). 3:53. "Chuck" Yeager (double ace) : Returning from an escort mission, after get. (arlingtoncemetry.net), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? 1:12. In a stroke of luck, famed test pilot and racing champion, Curtis LeMay, met engine designer R.J. Mitchell at an air show and suggested adding the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine to the Mustang. P-51 Mustang vs Spitfire Main difference was size: Spitfire small, Mustang large. Shopping Cart: 0 item(s) / $0 . The ratio's for Mustangs was ~ 10.7:1, the P-47's ~ 7.5:1 and the P-38's were ~ 2.6:1. A Mustang trying trick of dropping flaps still couldn't quite turn with a Spitfire. Vote. 5 years ago. Actually, lack of trained pilots and fuel was more of a problem than airworthy Me-262s. Try the F-15 Eagle. highest kill ratio | Aircraft of World War II - WW2Aircraft.net Forums When he arrived on the scene the aircraft had dispersed, so he duly joined up with some other Flying Fortresses that were lacking adequate escort. Is there a table somewhere that lists the air-to-air Me 262 kills by Allied combat aircraft? 4 x 12.7mm machine guns in wingsP-51D: 6 x .50 cal machine guns in wings. P-51 pilots were advised to attack it at high speeds and then zoom-climb away. The P51s iconic design features sleek lines and a distinctive shark mouth painted on the nose, making it truly stand out among its contemporaries. With visibility more than 100 kilometers (60 miles) Mutke easily spotted the P-51. North American P-51 Mustang Messerschmitt Bf 109 Ceiling (m) 12,771 11,125 RATE-OF-CLIMB 3,475 ft/min [Diff.+175 feet] RATE-OF-CLIMB 3,300 ft/min [Diff.-175 feet] North American P-51 Mustang Messerschmitt Bf 109 RoC (ft) 3,475 3,300 ARMAMENT Dependent upon model, includes any of the following: The Me 262 provided them with something they had never had before speed. had more drag caused by stub fuselage for its cockpit. As a result, Me 262 pilots were relatively safe from the Allied fighters, as long as they did not allow themselves to get drawn into low-speed turning contests and saved their maneuvering for higher speeds. On Internet, a reference to book "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" tight turn into the attacker at just the precise moment before the jet or Mustangs shot down early MiG-3 propeller fighters (??). As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. section of the enemy aircraft. The Messerschmitt Me-262 was the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft. US Air Force (af.mil): Your email address will not be published. Me 262 vs P-51 Mustang - United States Its a matchup that aviation enthusiasts have debated for years. fighter that had the legs to escort its heavy bombers deep into [ref: 359th Fighter Group by Jack H. Smith] With its external drop tanks, the P-51 can stay in the air for hours, while the Me 262 can only manage minutes without refueling. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces.Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. Messerschmitt Me262A-1A & P-51D Mustang, Airfix A50183 (2021) - Scalemates I caught up with So fast and hard to catch that the P-51 pilots were only able to follow the a/c on landing or wait in squadron strength for the sleek birds to take off..aka "Rat Catching". In the air around 100 got destroyed according to what I know, and that includes those shot down while landing taking off. The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack.. explosion, and a sheet of red-orange flame shot out over an area of about 1Lt Compared with Allied fighters of its day, including the British jet-powered Gloster Meteor, it was much faster and . [ref: Ziegler]. The P-47 Thunderbolt? This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. A P-51 faster than a ME-262? [ref: Hitlers Jet Plane by Mano Ziegler] By [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? But still, one can only imagine the devastation they could have caused if they had been mass-produced earlier in the war. a fast climbing turn to the left. Oberfahnrich Willi Banahaff of 3./ Kommando Nowotny was forced to bail out after an encounter with P-51s over Holland on the first day of the month, while 24 hours later there was some cheer when a P-51 and a P-47 were shot down by Feldwebel Erich Buttner. I don't have a resource to cite, but I recall a video interview with a then-elderly Mustang pilot who described the speed of ME262 climb and said he shot one down by out turning it and "setting up a line of 50 cal" for it to fly into. Unlike wing-heavy Me-262, Me-163 was very agile. Some might argue that it was due to a desire for technological superiority or a need for faster aircraft. How do/should administrators estimate the cost of producing an online introductory mathematics class? P-47 didn't have a propeller cone like FW-190 or Sea Fury had to reduce drag. 1:01. Just one solo German jet attacking, With a passion for aviation, as well as surfing and scanning the web, Rocco is in his element analyzing aircraft data and the differences and similarities between aircraft. The world's first operational jet fighter. The P-51, on the other hand, is a more traditional design. Me-262's top speed was reported as 515MPH or 540MPH By giving your consent, the data will be sent anonymously, thus protecting your privacy. Almost immediately, the pilot bailed out from about 24,500 feet. I was indicating Whether Me-163 pilot had slowed before attacking, or if it had run out of rocket-fuel, remains a mystery. (B) 2 x 20mm Hispano cannons and 4 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. fw-190-wurger. I saw a crash and a puff of black smoke. I then pulled up and circled over the spot where he went down. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"]. ", f-106deltadart.com: The words of general Ion Dobran, a former Romanian Bf . [ref: Roscoe Brown, Candelaria], Though ultimately, it was too little too late, the unmistakable roar of its engines striking fear into Allied troops as they raced through the skies was all the encouragement Nazi leaders needed to push forward with its development and construction. aircraft, which blew up just as it lifted off the ground. The North American Aviation P-51 Mustang is an American long-range, single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber used during World War II and the Korean War, among other conflicts. Which Allied aircraft scored the most air-to-air kills against the Me 262 in WWII?
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