Another anecdote, when I was deployed there was a desire to have experienced cockpits on higher risk/higher visibility missions usually two pilots with 1000+ total hours. Believe it or not, more than a few fellow senior non rated Army officers are jealous when it comes to flight pay. They require more time for people to gain experience. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. By Thomas Brading, Army News ServiceAugust 18, 2020. I'm thinking Army will start pushing dates to the right as much as possible to achieve its newfound maximum retention. Incentives proposed to better retain, progress Army pilots So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a suddenBAM! I have a high schooler who is applying to engineering programs for school and is interested in an ROTC path that might include aviation. The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. Our nation needs brave men and women willing to use Air Power to murder our enemies and break their shit. How is my list for OCS? : r/army - Reddit Sounds great! PDF Aviation Service of Rated Army Officers - United States Army However, if you missed that boat youre far better off taking an Active Duty UPT slot than trying Stans way and doing 5 years as in a non-flying job. Hopefully with the new 10 year ADSO aviation will assess more senior NCOs. I am a former Aviation Officer and when I got out after my ADSO was complete I was surprised that no one questioned why or tried to get me to stay. When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and Start With Why. He was thinking about turning down an Active Duty UPT slot and fulfilling the alternative 5-year USAFA non-pilot ADSC as an engineer or something, then pursuing a UPT slot with a Guard or Reserve unit. Just so we know I'm not a whiny do nothing: seven deployments, six combat for a total of 70 months and 66 months respectively. But Army aviation is better than sitting behind a desk and possibly dying of boredom. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. Im would bank on that being the flight school start date officially. I crushed the SIFT, passed my flight physical, have a great OML standing, etc., so I should have a good chance of getting my top pick. The UH-72 costs twice as much to operate as a TH-67. They think this is going to solve the shortage. I spend almost 20 years missing opportunities due to family, deployments, school, and fear to change. I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. A regular Active Duty pilot career path. Army and Air Force use this pay. Were you part of the 6 year or 10 year ADSO group? It's not exactly friendly but this is the military. 6 years is a masters degree, 10 years is 2 years longer than a PH. This is both expensive and time-consumingtough to fit in around a 9-5 as an engineer, especially if he has a family. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and getting kicked to the curb as a furlough. If you love the flying youre doing, and you have a squadron of good people, any assignment can be a great experience, no matter how busy you are. Army Career Satisfaction Program Hah right. That's the Army's ace in the hole. You incura 6-year ADSO for completing WOBC and also for completing Initial flight training. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) Anyone who does a modicum of research will quickly discover that our aviation culture is objectively inferior to the other services. Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. Change flight school where primary flight training is done by civilian contractors via fixed wing. The big gotcha of the Active Duty pilot career path is that on the day you earn your wings, you also get hit with a 10-year Active Duty Service Commitment (ADSC). 10 years after flight school graduation. Just sign away your life until you're 34!". Well, the short answer is, we dont know. The increased ADSO shows that senior leaders fundamentally do not understand the issues, and it will do nothing to address the attrition as the years go on. It doesn't matter that the WOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. I was under the impression that the bonus went away when they upped the 10+ year flight pay. Instead of giving bonuses of several hundred thousand dollars to keep pilots like our Air Force brethren get, the Army decides the best course of action is to just make it mandatory 10 years like them but not receive the pay. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/ It will give you a recruiting advantage because a person out of high school or a year of college could position themselves for later on in life. This ADSO will likely cause a sharp decline in recruiting among cadets selecting their branches and enlisted soldiers and civilians interested in becoming Army pilots. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. In the end, it's the Army getting a good return on the investments.. The Army is making those who want to go through flight school incur a 10 year active duty service obligation (ADSO) as it's "fix" for pilot retention. army aviation 10 year adso - tecis.in More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. A RAND Corporation studyfound that even $35,000 a year would not be sufficient to stem the flow of Air Force pilotsthe study concluded a bonus cap between $38,500 and $62,500 would be necessary to make a meaningful impact. Why or why not? Serving on Active Duty is also the only way to get an overseas flying assignment. People have no time to actually live their lives. review for a restaurant or somethingonly those who either #LOVEDIT or #hatedit:( ever write reviews, so it's hard to know what the experience is like for the average man. I assume if you're not finished withflight school by 30 Sep 20, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. Especially if they view retention as a big enough problem to justify an additional 4 year commitment from aviators. This used to be unheard of. I assume you're in flight school officially once completing BCT and WOCS. Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. It must continue to remove burdens that plague the warrant officer community, such as non-pilot-related duties and frequent deployments to combat training centers. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? Probably a 11-11.5 year commitment. Given the pandemic's direct and indirect effects on the aviation industry, is that even going to a concern going forward. 10 year ADSO started FY21. Think about approving some ETPs. The Army should be able to meet their quota through CAREER Enlisted personnel ONLY if they must. Not difficult for the Army in finding 300 additional NCOs for the WOFT program if need be. Additionally, Cadets awarded Aviation Branch cannot participate in the Post of Choice program due to the inability to project requirements beyond flight school. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. F-35s in feature image: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky. Having looked at these options, lets go back to our original thought: If you missed your shot at the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path are you screwed? The best pilots I have served with were prior NCOs. The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. "We probably need to look at it and adjust it a . The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. Just to end it and walk away.. victorious..? I was enlisted for 6 before I moved over. Instead, the aviation branch has proposed to boost aviation career incentive pay, or flight pay, which can retain more qualified aviators, he said. Although busy, it left plenty of downtime for people to have actual lives. The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said. However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. U.S. Army UH-60L Black Hawk helicopters from the New Jersey National Guards 1-150th Assault Helicopter Battalion sit on the flight line during sunset at the Army Aviation Support Facility, Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J., Nov. 8, 2018. C-17 formation from the ramp: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. More money for tents and rifles, I suppose. It is for anyone graduating flight school and should be based on your graduation date. I retired in 1998. 10 U.S. Code 2114: Graduates of the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences incur an ADSO of at least 7 years. Unfortunately, it probably wont exist long enough for it to achieve the desired effects. army aviation 10 year adso. We are always either training or deploying. The Army will continue to honor all GRADSO contracts for officers from YGs 2006-2013. Serving on Active Duty is also the only way to get an overseas flying assignment. COVID has taken care of the airline hiring problem for the next three to five years, making the issueance of an increased ADSO redundant. Also, it ap-plies to the Regular Army and Reserve Component officers (Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve) ordered into aviation service by the Secretary of the Army and applies to all commissioned and warrant officers who are training for or have Army aeronautical ratings. Well see that the Active Duty option is still a good deal, that the overall difference isnt so great, and well see why youre better off pursuing either than trying to fulfill a non-pilot commissioning commitment before trying to pursue the Ultimate career path. Within the company we tried to level out flight time to give the senior guys some rest, but the battalion/brigade leadership was too risk averse and pushed back. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Officer Active Duty Service Obligation (ADSO) Guide It does have the potential to get him to the airlines more quickly, and hed do all of his military flying in the Guard or Reserve (with Quality of Life far superior to Active Duty, in most cases). Does anyone know the current selection breakdown of street to seat vs prior service? Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. , I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. The pilot shortage is not in applicants it is in mid career. In the report provided to Congress, however, increasing the service obligation was not mentioned as a possible solution to pilot retention shortfalls. The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. It only increases your overall training costs because typically you have less time available to retain these people. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. The Army increased monthly pilot pay from a maximum of $850 per month to $1000 per month, offered $35,000 annual bonuses to qualified warrant officers who extend for three years, and reduced combined training center rotations to two per twelve-month period for each combat aviation brigade. That's my issue (age waiver). The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. The army has never been good at personnel management. Apache course end? If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. , this is far from guaranteed. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. I would also say if the Army wants to recruit more street to seat, I would require those people to attend Basic Training at FT Benning and intensify the military training for non-prior service WOCs. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. So Army. Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes. But ifonline discussions are any indication, this ADSO will turn away a lot of prospective pilots. There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? But then again, it's 4 more years of employment or should I say deployments. Can you imagine thesmile on more than a few faces of the last graduating class in Fy 2020 in September. The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. Those serving on active duty for less than 10 years shall serve in the Ready Reserve as follows: For active duty service less than 8 years, 6 years in the Ready Reserve. We need people with your background, dedication and professionalism in the warrant officer cohort. In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. Army Career Satisfaction Program Really sucks for all the street2seat guys coming in or anyone that has prior Aviation experience on the outside. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the Discretionary pay intended to be used as needed to address retention problems. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) The service obligation begins on the date an officer attains an aeronautical rating of Army aviator or is removed from attendance, whichever is earlier.. positivism constructivism or interpretivism and pragmatism army aviation 10 year adso. Can you hear the roar of approval erupting from Army doctors across the globe serving out their decade plus commitments? The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. No products in the cart. Im a senior NCO with two decades of experience and proven loyalty to the nation and her army. That hesitation will open up slots for others further down an OML or with less stellar accomplishments, potentially creating other issues related to performance or aptitude. In my first year and a half after flight school I flew over 500 hours. Army, Coast Guard . Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may That means, we need you! Your email address will not be published. I would have stayed in for another 10+ years if I had the opportunity to revert to Warrant Officer and fly more, but that opportunity doesn't exist. Gen. McCurry also said, People still want to fly. They used their experience to mentor and groom all the other warrants around them including myself. I'm about to retire from the Air Force as an engineer, O-4, mostly dest and staff job. Upload or insert images from URL. Age should be liftedI'm in my mid fifties and still fly helicopters (civilian market) for a living. I'm very healthy and fit, I would like to fly helicopters. You can post now and register later. These cadets may not be willing to forgo an extra four years of civilian work experience to serve as aviation officers. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://thefrontlines.com/comics/army-pilots-beware/. The USMA/ROTC graduating cadets will make the decision on the 12 year commitment in 2021. I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the, Now that Im older and wiser, one of my many. As a good mentor, I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. We are very, very interested in seeing more applications, he added. The First 10 Year ADSO Class : Armyaviation - reddit The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. The increased ADSO only harms this effort further. If you receive the Grad School option, the option costs you nothing because GrADSO runs concurrent with your flight school ADSO. Check this post out on Reddit:https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. Why would you stay in the Army where you barely get to be a normal human, where you could make twice the pay, work half the amount, and actually get to live a somewhat normal life? The rest are grandfathered in. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. Once Stan finally gets qualified in his aircraft, hed get seasoning orders with his Guard or Reserve unit. Furthermore, the Army should implement quality of life and quality of service surveys for every pilot who remains. I bet less than 300 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a Restricted ATP rating and a shot at a regional airline job a couple of years before his Active Duty pilot peers. Pasted as rich text. Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. People tend to forget, aportion of street to seat WOFT applicants areprior service. If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. Perhaps it's just for RLOs but don't count on that. The pay and benefits arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. Back then the Army had a hard-on for pilots. I would never have signed a 10 year ADSO for army aviation. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots retention in the future. My formation barely ever conducts social events. That's what the Army was counting on. Reading your first paragraph and skimming the rest I couldn't agree more. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. These could range from 6 months to two years, depending on the type of aircraft hes flying. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. Active component warrant officer strength, as of October 1, 2018 (Source: Report to Congressional Armed Services Committees on Initiatives for Mitigating Military Pilot Shortfalls), Two main variables affect pilot strength in the military: production and retention. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. 2-4 more moves for assignments during his Active Duty career. The severity of the decline in recruiting will be unknown until the recruiting data comes in from the first affected class of cadets and warrant officer candidates. We should approach our congressmen to change the re-entry rules to allow ATPs. We dont have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force. Without useful data, the Army cannot implement targeted retention solutions. 10 is nuts. It never ends. You can review the rules in AR 600-3 if memory serves. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. Aviation Warrant Officers have a 10-year service commitment after completing Warrant Officer Flight School. I'd love to see credit for the photo. I still don't understand how this ADSO extension is going to fix any of those issues, though it may act as a "gotcha" to get people "over the hill" in their Army career where they wouldn't feel like a transition at 10-12 years of service would be a good decision. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic!
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